Monday, September 04, 2006
The Buried Plates: Evidence of Authenticity
Where did Joseph Smith get the idea of ancient records on metal plates hidden in a stone box that was buried in the earth? Critics mocked this for decades--until many other examples of ancient records preserved on plates or in stone boxes were found. In our day, scholars know that there is a vast ancient tradition pertaining to preserving sacred records by concealing them for some future time. Some of this evidence is brought together lucidly in John A. Tvedtnes, The Book of Mormon and Other Hidden Books (Provo, Utah: Foundation for Ancient Research and Mormon Studies, 2000). Also see my Book of Mormon "Nugget," "Hiding Sacred Records like the Golden Plates: A Well Established Ancient Practice." It turns out that this practice of concealing records "is most prominent in the ancient Near East, the land from which the Book of Mormon people emigrated to the New World. The practice of concealing records in stone boxes is also well attested in the ancient world and was still being practice in Moroni's day. And the use of metal for preserving sacred records is also attested, particularly in the ancient Near East. Joseph Smith could not have known this, and his early critics had no clue either (and many modern critics still remain blissfully unaware of the extensive discoveries in this area). How, then, if the Book of Mormon is a forgery, did Joseph manage to be so lucky as to make up a story about the plates that fits ancient patterns so well?
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7 comments:
Ed, Just because there is evidence to say, people do and did write upon tablets of stone or metel and bury them in the groumd is simplyt not enough evidence to say this is the case with JS.
Why? Because first off, Many people have proven the Gold plates would have weighed close to if not more that 300 pounds. It states he pretty much passed them around with one hand and carried the like a book under his arm.
Then unlike the dead sea scrools and other documents, The golden plates do not exist here on earth for us to see and view, Supposdely they were taken back to heaven. Not very good evidence if you ask me. Rick b
In Joseph Smith's day the idea of metal plates was foreign to archeology. In fact Smith was ridiculed for this statement of Gold plates and was told specifically that no one in ancient times did this. That fact has been proven wrong.
As for the fact they would have wieghed 300lbs. I have no article that I have written, since I do not own 300 lbs of gold to prove or not prove for myself nor do I own the plates, but neither do you. I am aware of articles that state it was not "gold" as in 999 pure gold but a compound of gold mixed with other metals. This could wiegh considerably less. I will dig one of those articles up and post it for you. I think it is on FARMS or FAIR, you probably have already read it, if you have please post that you have and I will leave it at that.
As for Dead Sea Scrolls, they are not considered scripture by most religoius groups. However we like alot of groups use it to substanciate our position. That stated the Gold Plates it we had them, (I have meantioned before) would show PROOF and NEGATE Faith.
Wer62
I read the various articles on Gold plates, no need to post them for me, But I guess if the LDS teach it was Gold, Gold really does not mean Gold, because reall gold would be to heavy. Also if you had the plates it would help faith not hurt it, the Bible says search the scriptures. We search for evidence to help or faith, We dont have a blind faith. We have the dead sea scrools that helps, we have tons of buildings, coins, etc found that we dug up, this has not destoryed our faith.
The dead sea scrolls you keep bringing up. The "sons of light" and the scrolls are not considered "scripture". In fact I do not see anyone attempting to "add" anything from the Isaiah scroll into the Bible or modify the Bible to fit the Isaiah scroll from the Dead Sea Scrolls and there are some differences. So your argument that this is the "same" as having the gold plates is disjointed at best.
So you are correct that the Gold Plates from the standpoint of evidence is "not good" but from a faith standpoint either you have faith they existed or you don't.
Besides there is plenty of evidence to show the Book of Mormon is true based on archeology.
Also. As for many people have proven: There are just as many articles for the plates wieghing much less than 300 lbs. based on other factors not mentioned by your article. Like you said no need to post that here anyone can look it up on FAIRLDS.org for themselves. It would be just one article verse another.
Wer62
That stated, let me make one furher comment. Yes metal plates in general are proof since Joseph Smith was ridiculed for saying he had these plates but cannot show you since the general public at the time said, "ancient records are not keep in this fashion".
So, the question begs to be asked: If this was not known to the public that ancient records are kept this way, then how did Joseph Smith know of this method? Nothing in literature of the area he lived in would have pointed to this. So if he was "making it up" did he just get lucky?
Wer62
Joseph Smith was a powerfully strong man and widely known for his athletic prowess and strength. Nowhere does it state that he carried all of the gold plates at once under his arm. They were placed in a strong wooden box and moved from place to place or hidden under the mantle.
My husband can bench 400 without even breaking a sweat. So don't say Joseph Smith couldn't have carried those around just because you couldn't.
Ed - please add this blogspot to the ring as well. Love it!
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